Edited – 12/7/7 for clarity, grammar & spelling. I was tired when I posted this. Sorry.
If you’re not British, this probably won’t make a lot of sense. I recently came across the new service from Channel 4 Television called 4 on Demand or 4OD. As Channel 4 air some great programmes which I rarely get to see I figured this would be a great way to catch up when my timetable allows.
So, I went on their site, downloaded and installed their application and…..it all went pear shaped very quickly! Basically, it’s a big messy pile of crap that doesn’t work properly and the Channel 4 support forum is full of unhappy people who are having problems. Oh dear, what are we to do? For those who are interested, this application (which is flaky as hell) is the same one used by Sky, apparently.
This is what is supposed to happen: The app installs itself and a new Windows service (called KService). This is a simple peer to peer program. So, you run it, choose the programme you want to watch and either stream or download it. It’s DRM (which can be circumvented if you can be bothered, allegedly!) enabled by the way. So, then you can watch the programme and it’s all good….in theory!
What really happens is: You download the app, it installs itself along with a nice new service in Windows which you didn’t know about and weren’t warned about. You download a programme to watch later. What you don’t know is that once downloaded, that programme sits in a hidden directory on your C drive (which you DID NOT get to choose!) and is then shared with the rest of the world. Basically, once you’ve got KService running in the background, it shares any programmes you download and uses up YOUR bandwidth. As many ISP’s cap or limit bandwidth these days, it’s a bit of a bugger when Channel 4 use all yours without your knowledge or consent! Naughty. Yes, there’s probably some explanation in some small print somewhere, but who really reads it? Nope, not me either. What is also happening to lots of people, including me is that after a couple of successful goes with this application, it just stops working. You get your popcorn and beer sorted, sit down in front of the pooter, ready to watch the programmes you missed last week and it fails. There’s a few different problems with this program and the error I get is so obscure, I couldn’t be bothered trying to remember. It’s crap anyway.
So, I’ve blocked the application with my firewall, stopped it from running and disabled the KService. No more 4OD for me. I’ll be uninstalling it tonight. It’s a shame because it had real potential, but it seems they released a pre-beta on the unsuspecting public and many of us copped for the problems it caused. If you don’t believe me, check out the Channel 4 support forum for 4OD, it’s quite entertaining to read some of the flames!
Never again!
Jim
I wanted to try it, but they’ve given some lame excuse about DRM that passes the buck to Apple, claiming that they can’t protect the content in the way that the content owners want.
So it’s not possible to record from TV and then share it then?
I think I’ll give it a miss too…
By: duality1 on July 11, 2007
at 7:44 pm
Hehe, I hadn’t heard that about Apple.
DRM is a joke anyway. It’s very easy to get around and the programmes downloaded can be converted with the DRM removed. Allegedly, so I believe, apparently, rumour has it. Of course, I have not done this as it would probably be illegal.
The assumption here is that you’re savvy enough to figure out where on your C drive the hidden folder is. It took me around 20 minutes to spot it. What’s really annoying is that the one 30 minute programme I managed to download before their application died was around 180Mb. Now, if I were to grab a few of these and used the service regularly, my hard drive would fill up very quickly with files that are hidden from the user. Hmmm. Not to mention the rapidly dwindling bandwidth when it shares all this stuff using its peer to peer function.
I think Channel 4 have shot themselves in the foot with this one.
Jim
By: therantman on July 12, 2007
at 8:47 am
I think it is terrible they’re using p2p too – it’s really quite wrong, and as soon as someone runs a story on it, then I’m fairly sure people will loose confidence in it…
By: duality1 on July 12, 2007
at 1:09 pm
Yes it is wrong. It’s hailed as a free service and the actual implications of using it are NOT clear at the outset at all. I’m beginning to wonder if I should put in a complaint with the Advertising Standards Authority about this.
One very annoying aspect of this is that Channel 4 are actually charging just under £1 for many programmes. So, not only are we expected to pay for their archive material, but we’re the ones uploading the damn content to other customers as well!!!!! How’s that for cheek?!?!
If you look on the page showing the system requirements for this application, it mentions nothing about needing lots of hard drive space for all the hidden crap. In fact, it doesn’t seem to mention the hidden crap at all (except in the small print?).
The less tech savvy PC/Internet users out there are going to be stung by this “service”.
My blog is hardly the most popular forum for getting info out to the public about what they are really installing, so yes it does need a bit more exposure. Let’s hope someone takes up the challenge.
Jim
By: therantman on July 12, 2007
at 2:44 pm
Unfortunately, it looks like this is the way TV on Demand is going to go…
Sky On Demand, 4OD and even the BBC iPlayer all use Kontiki software to manage their content delivery, hence KService.exe is turning up on a lot of PC’s of people who have no idea how it got there.
The sad thing is that its hard to argue with the logic behind it. Channel 4 supply a number of programs online completely free – if all the downloads came through their servers, then I’ll guarantee the paid content would be a lot more than £1. More likely, you just wouldnt get free downloads, it would all have to be paid for!
I wrote a post about it a while back with some instructions on how to temporarily disable kservice.exe (ie, while you’re not using it) and then reactivate it when you’ve got something to watch. Its not ideal, but at least it means you can use 4OD and not have to sacrafice your entire monthly download limit at the same time…
http://mou.me.uk/2007/05/09/kserviceexe-channel-4-and-the-stolen-bandwith/
By: mou on July 19, 2007
at 5:07 pm
Hi mou,
Thanks for your comments. You’ve got a nice article about this on your blog.
You’re quite right about being able to temporarily disable the service using the firewall. I still decided to vote with my feet on this one though.
Logically, yes I can see why they have done it using peer to peer to keep costs down and potentially the speed high. However, they have not been up front about it. Who reads the small print or disclaimer? Considering this is Channel4, a reputable company, you’d expect to be able to trust them to some extent. Obviously not!
One of your commenters has mentioned that uploading is not included in the bandwidth cap by ISP’s. I’m not convinced by that argument. The bandwidth cap used to be simply a monthly download limit. These days, most ISP’s have moved toward the “fair usage policy”. I suspect that the popularity of peer to peer software (especially bittorrent) has driven this change and that they now include both up and downloads. I do believe many ISP’s also have clauses in their terms and conditions to prevent users from running servers on their domestic (as opposed to commercial) account.
It’s all academic anyway. Channel4 have still got probably hundreds or even thousands of unwitting “customers” out there who are oblivious to what their PC is doing. This is as bad as the Sony DRM fiasco as far as I am concerned. There is no excuse for not being open to people about what the software is really doing in the background. It amounts to hijacking in my book.
Jim
By: therantman on July 20, 2007
at 9:32 am
I’ve just been reading the BBC website pages about their new on demand video service using iPlayer.
Two things struck me…firstly, that name; iPlayer. Is that a nod toward Apple? There’s some Apple connection, but I can’t remember what it was and don’t have the energy to search for it.
Secondly, is that the BBC service also uses Kontiki apparently. If it’s anything like 4OD (which it very much resembles in the screenshots!) then it’s going to be crap too.
So, if you download this one and the Channel4 offering, you’re going to be filling up your HDD with twice as much junk in the form of hidden files. Not to mention the bandwidth hit!
I went to the sign up page for the BBC beta. I couldn’t find anything up front about the peer to peer aspect. So, either it isn’t, or it is but is only mentioned in their Terms and Conditions. Which, if I’m being honest, I didn’t read.
Anyone tried the BBC service yet? What’s your opinion?
Jim.
By: therantman on July 29, 2007
at 12:44 am
The 4OD signup page hasn’t been working for a couple of days.
Now I’ve read this rant I’m rather glad!
I think it’s a disgrace that C4 could pull a stunt like that. It’s almost as bad as that stupid Sony stunt when they put spyware on their audio cds.
But then again, when some tv execs think you’re ’stealing programs’ if you skip the adverts on your Tivo, what else can we expect?
By: Amin on August 2, 2007
at 1:01 am
4OD + Windows Media DRM = Skynet!!!
By: Oliver on August 21, 2007
at 5:11 pm
This solved all problems for me
1. Uninstall Iplayer Download Manager and/or 4OD using Add/Remove programs.
2. Uninstall Kontiki by running KClean.exe http://static.sky.com/kclean/KClean.exe.
3. Then delete the remnants of the Kontiki folder in Program Files if it’s still there.
4. Check the Services list again. KService should no longer be present.
5. Reinstall Download Manager and/or 4OD.
6. Check Services list. KService should now be present and “Started”.
7. Both programs should now work!
By: Rob on January 28, 2009
at 11:20 am
Hi Rob,
You’ve resurrected quite an old post here. I wasn’t aware the issue is still ongoing, but appreciate your bringing it up again if so.
I’m not entirely certain what your instructions are for though. Uninstalling and reinstalling the applications will just get you back to where you began, unless I’m mistaken.
If my memory serves, isn’t KService the peer to peer component? My whole argument was against this running 24/7 (or at all!) along with the sneaky installation of hidden folders on your PC. Does your post remedy this?
I don’t fancy installing the software again to find out, as it was a drama getting rid of it in the first place.
All the best,
Jim
By: therantman on January 28, 2009
at 11:45 am
worked fine for me….maybe your ranting because you dont know how to use it
By: moomin on January 30, 2009
at 10:00 pm
moomin,
Erm thanks for that. The software probably does work very well by now, it’s been out long enough to be mature and stable(ish).
It also installs a lot of hidden data on your PC, along with a peer to peer service which forces you (unless you disable it) to share all the content you downloaded with lots of other unwitting victims. If you’re happy to give up your hard drive space, Internet bandwidth and full control of your PC to the Channel 4 software, I’m really chuffed for you. Excellent.
Cheers,
Jim
By: therantman on January 30, 2009
at 10:07 pm
“worked fine for me….maybe your ranting because you dont know how to use it”
Maybe you don’t know how to really use a computer. The stuff 4oD installs and runs is unbelievable, if any major software vendor (MS?) did this there would be huge stink.
By: thomas on May 27, 2009
at 3:35 pm